Mid Week Match-Up: Replace The Goat
It is Wednesday so that means another time for a Mid Week Match-Up (TM)! Steve is a Chicago resident and everyday reader of DT and recently
sold THE GOAT, his rusty, trusty and much loved Toyota 4Runner. In his
own words, “I loved that car but a number of terminal afflictions,
mainly middle-age and parenthood, got in the way of me using it
regularly.” Even though THE GOAT was as reliable as taxes and winter,
It just got a little too rough to be ferrying the kids to little league,
school plays, language school and his wife’s snobby friend’s houses.
Plus, it need a number of amenity fixes (AC, door locks, upholstery)
that just didn’t look good on the P&L statement. Help find Steve a new ride!
Steve is looking for a 5-Speed (no slushboxes jack
wagon!), 4WD or AWD, 4-cylinder preferred (but will consider 6-bangers)
utility vehicle that’s not too soft and maybe, just maybe has a little
style. 4-doors are preferred but will make the right 2-door work. Open
to well maintained high-mileage vehicles and completely oddball
selections but a certain amount of reliability, civilized appearance and
AC is necessary as he wishes to remain married and avoid dirty stares
from other parents. I’d like to spend $8000 or less.
All that said, if there’s a crazy ass all terrain
vehicle out there that will get his kids to school during the next polar
vortex, feel free to suggest. No mini-vans.
Steve was nice enough to provide us with pictures and even write most of the above words…so…we found his next ride.
This 1992 ARO 244 is offered for $5,000 in Hazleton, PA via craigslist. It features the unbeatable combination of Romanian build quality, Hella fog lamps and a Ford Ranger 4-cylinder engine. Sure, the brakes don’t work, tires are probably dry-rotted and it has some rust, but just look at it!!
What do you suggest for Steve? Comments below.
Want to be the feature of a future Mid Week Match-Up? tips@dailyturismo.com
How about this sex machine?
sexy time machine
I'm with sloth on this one. I personally know of four of these in need of an engine. I'm told it has the same engine as the wrx and up here in eastern Canada I found two engines nationally one with 238k km for $3500 and another with nearly 100k km more for $3800. So like he said if you own one sell it now and buy anything else.
Or if you prefer gold, cloth, fewer miles, at a lower price and want to go to Naugatuck, CT instead of Longmont, CO for pickup theres always this beauty
I type on the internet for fun and laughs, and really only here. I say this with Peace and Love: No. Absolutely not. That engine will explode and leave you with a car with a junk value of $600.00. If you own one, sell it tomorrow. I personally know of 4 which have blown up, 3 being legacy wagons and one being the Forester XT. Anything Subaru, which ends in XT, is going to leave you sad. And then Angry. One I know of was still under warrantee but, because synthetic oil was used and not changed every 3000 miles, it was voided. Oil preference and changes had nothing to do with the catastrophic failure. Please run from this car. Peace and Love.
As the previous owner of 2 Legacy GT wagons (2.5 turbo, same engine as the OBXT/FXT), I can for the most part stand behind this statement.
The problem with these cars (one of them, anyways) is that when they first came out, Subaru said 7,250 miles (give or take) between oil changes. 30k-50k miles later, the turbo oil feed banjo in-line filter clogs with sludge, the turbo is starved of oil, the bearing splinters into a million shards that end up stuck in an oil galley or other small orifice. Even after you flush the oil and replace the turbo, you'll get 1k – 5k miles tops before you need a complete rebuild… every bearing in the engine needs to be replaced, period.
And if you're lucky enough to get out from under that cloud, there's the constant check engine lights, wheel bearing issues, fuel leaks in the engine bay in cold weather, dragging starters in cold weather, intercooler splitting, valve cover gaskets that need to be changed every 50k miles, auto transmissions that like to eat themselves… or the dual mass flywheels in the m/t cars that do the same after around 100k of service… and I only owned these cars for 2 years each… I could go on.
And don't get me started on the RUST.
They're fun cars, they're fast cars, they're safe cars (with no rust), but they are DEFINITELY NOT reliable cars. My auto trans car booked at $9k+ and I was more than happy to throw it at CarMax for $6k and walk away without blood on my hands. My manual trans car I sold for $13k (it was very, very heavily modified) and 10k into its new owner's hands, it needs new oil control rings. Solid compression across the board, but oil control rings are hosed. At 93k miles. 15k miles after a complete engine rebuild done at great expense at a Subaru dealership by a master tech.
Sorry for the rant but yeah bottom line, steer clear of the LGT/OBXT/FXT unless it was meticulously maintained and you have receipts from every oil change since day 1.
My recommendation is to purchase a rust-free '96-2002 4Runner Limited 4×4 in California and drive it home. It'll last you another 10 or so years before it too rusts out, but it's as familiar as an old shoe, reliable, capable, and goes good on regular gas. Plus you can keep all of your spares from your current truck and use them on this one. For $5k you can pick up a decent example. Plus, when your wife finds out, the seats fold down and you can sleep in it.
I just sold my 99 4runner sr5. Such a trusty friend. I bought a manual transmission BMW X5 that is really a blast to drive but has some short comings compared to the Toyota. Manual X5s are hard to find but they really do handle incredible and are very comfortable.
No matter the question, 1989 LaForza is the answer.
This VehiCROSS will defeat various snow vortexes and hurricanes. But it has a slushbox and may have less seats than Steve has kids.
Thanks Everyone for your suggestions. It's kind of interesting both how familiar and mind-expanding this process is. A few thoughts.
Subaru – I really love this brand but not so much in the 4×4 space. Bascially, I'd donate a minor organ to have a Subaru BRZ living in my garage to take out on sunny days. But driving a wagon or a Forester would make me feel like I've given up on ever having sex again. So it's unlikely that me the 6-stars will be driving together anytime soon.
California 4Runner – Every few months I troll SF CL for a cherry 4Runner. I'd like to find a rust free 1989 4Runner, owned by an old lady in Marin that was maintained by the dealer that her son wants to sell for $3K. Whether I buy this for myself or for future drivers in my family, I don't know. But it's a good idea. And YES, I have slept in the back of a 4Runner before.
BMW X5 – Now this is interesting. Especially since you made the jump from the lovable 4Runner to this MILF toting, overly complex, mega-heavy beast. My wife drives a BMW 325Xi that I both love and complain about. But, overall, it's been a good car for us. I've never considered the X5 before today but I'm going to look into. But the windows would need to be tinted so my friend wouldn't recognize me.
LaForza – I've actually looked into this orphan of a vehicle. It has a couple things I really like – Italian made, odd, reliably powered but it also has a couple things I don't care for – Ugly (in a boring way) and they all seem to be automatic. Someone in Chicago keeps listing one on CL. Perhaps I'll take a drive to see it.
Isuzu VehiCROSS – Damn your good Rod. This is almost perfect. Except… SLUSHBOX! If it was a 5-Speed, I'd put some undercarriage lights on it, a few huge TURBO stickers and get a Flat Brimmed Stormy Kromer cap and drive it out on the ice on Lake Superior with the windows open while blasting Polka music.
ARO – Don't know why, but I want this truck. Problem is that it's 1200 miles away and might not make a good daily driver. Although, if I painted it white and put a UN logo on it, I bet I could visit any hot spot in Chicago unharmed.
Thanks All.
I could give you audi allroad, fits your specs if you can find a stick. But, just like the X5, it would be scary if you bought the wrong one. There is one choice which you must consider: Nissan XTerra. Don't scoff, take a look. Sort of like a newer version of your 4Runner. 5 speed stick and perfect for the disgusting residue that children tend to generate.
I'm open to the Nissan XTerra. Truly a charming oddball with proven reliability. I once owned a humble & reliable Nissan Pathfinder that was pretty much unbreakable until a HUGE tree branch fell on it during the epic summer storm of 2008. Even with the roof crushed it worked perfectly. Drove it to the junkyard. Was there ever a 4-cylinder option for the XTerra?
Yes, it appears that you could get a 4 banger with a whopping 143 hp up until 2004. Not sure whether you could get the 4cyl with 4×4, I thought you could but I can't find any (not trying too hard though). You can get a stick in both the 4 and the 6. If it was me, and if possible, I would get a base XE 4×4 with the 4 cylinder and a 5 speed stick. Slow but not much to break, not sure if it even has power windows.
Sloth – We're speaking the same language. I'm preternaturally biased to 4-cylinder, 5-speed, 4x4s. I live in a big city so I don't need to drive fast. When I travel, I like driving far enough to hit gravel roads & two tracks and I feel like a moron when my mechanic tells that I need to replace inter-cooler on my turbo. I'd rather drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. And I'd be the happiest guy around to NOT have electric windows on my new-ish truck. I'm digging into this.
Personally, Steve, I'd opt for a 1977 Lincoln Town Car with the 400 V8. Opera windows and a horizontal thermometer-type speedo seem befitting a man of your stature.
Kidding. I'm middle-aged, mechanically challenged and used to drive a Renault Alliance with no reverse gear. And, I have bad hair.
I do wish you luck on your search. When you find your 4-wheeled stallion, swing by Chicago's Northwest Side, pick my sorry ass up, and I'll take for for a grande skim half-caf mochalattechino with hazelnut foam. That's how I roll.
6 speed!
enthusiastauto.com/qsearch/?id=4796&form_display=51#.U2uYUSgXL0A
Honda Element – Does anyone have any experience/opinions/thoughts about the Element?
AbnMike (regular commenter here) was selling an AWD, 5-speed manual Element a while back. Hopefully he sees this and chimes in.
Drove one as a company car about a decade ago. Boring, noisy, slow, ugly, no 3rd row seat. Engine sounds very un-Honda. The one I had liked to eat brakes.
On the upside, they're good on gas, AWD is very FWD biased but functions in the snow just fine. Interior is fantastic for kids/mutts/gear, rear seats are reminiscent of the jump seats in the 90's Land Cruisers. Flat load floor. Fold flat seats. Sleeps 2 comfortably, 4 in a pinch. Decently reliable. Low ground clearance and so-so approach/break-over/departure angles if you're in to that sort of thing but it will dirt road just fine.
Did I mention FANTASTIC interior for small, active families, especially with the carpet-delete? Probably wouldn't pass the stuck-up-country-club test, but who cares, you can't hose kid/mutt/gear detritus off the floor of a Range Rover (and expect it to run afterwards). Fold up seats + flat floor + tie downs = basically a short, stubby van.
It it had better towing, ground clearance, and looks I'd have considered one instead of the 4Runner we ended up buying.
I had one and sold it when I had my daughter. It was the 4WD + 5-speed manual combo, with all available options.
Problems are as RyanM noted above, though I'd argue the 4WD was good for no improvement in snow, and much worse than a simple set of snow tires on a FWD Element would have been. The cloth seats wear easily. Clamshell rear doors necessitate opening the front doors fully to get out, and the front doors are very long. This makes for embarrassingly bad parking lot gymnastics. The hard rubber floors are simple to clean, but any load likes to roll and slide all over, and groceries end up under the driver's feet under even slight braking.
Mine also ate brakes, especially rear. It got 22-24 mpg in mostly suburban transport. I would not trust it in any offroad circumstances that I wouldn't trust my Honda Fit, for example.
Yes, get an element. I've had great luck with my fwd5mt. No brake issues. It's surprisingly well sprung and damped for what it is.
If I had the money, I'd do an AWD with the pop-top conversion, add the 6th gear (slips right in) and see what other honda-family engine upgrades there are.
Then lift it a little, slip on some Mud Terrains, tubular bumpers, Cibies, and roof-mounted intake for a nice Dakar replica….
I like the Element for its homely/futuristic styling. Seems perfect for Dads that used to be cool. The suicide doors would certainly have their disadvantages (just like the FJ) but I could likely overcome that. I like the leg room in back as the kids were tight in the 4Runner and the 325Xi. Two questions: 1) Any theories on the brake wear? 2) How does it shift/how is the shift action?
And I like the idea of lifting it a few inches. Like a breadbox on platform shoes!
Steve – Can't speak for shift action as mine was an automatic (FWIW shifted fine for the 40k miles I had it) however brake pad wear I did a bit of research on – general consensus/theory is that it's the caliper guide / slider pins get "sticky" after about a year of use. This causes the rear calipers to be slower to release pressure after braking. Fix is to disassemble/lube the rear calipers every spring if you live in the rust belt.
I never got a chance to put that theory to practice, but without touching anything I went through 2 sets of rear pads in 40k miles (and the 2nd set had about 4mm left when I offloaded it) vs. the fronts that were still wearing their original pads and had about 50% meat left. All 4 of the rear pads were wearing evenly within a few mm of each other.
All in all, there are plenty of other cars out there with worse mechanical vices than eating rear pads, and it is preventable (in theory) with a little bit of elbow grease annually.
I'm shocked no one has suggested the Jeep Cherokee (XJ). While not a 4 the I6 is an amazing engine that will live forever as will the rest of the truck. Built from 87 to 2001 (with the I6) parts are readily available and cheap. 4×4 models are common though you do have to look a bit for the 5 spd. Regularly sell for under $4k with cars in the $2.5k range being the norm.
Seeing as I can't possibly get flamed any harder, how about something like this Honda CRV
Its practical, will run for a while and only kind of emasculating. I would drive one, but then again, I would drive a minivan because I think they are awesome. My wife thinks I am less awesome.
Not flamed, my comments were for public service. I was worried that my thoughts were going to bring rage from some gang of xt crazies. I drive a 2013 Honda minivan which I think is the greatest road trip car invented. Your wife needs to get on board. I agree, the crv, if it can be found with a stick, is a definite option. Not sure of price point though.
I didn't see the link. It can be had! Not a bad truckster.
Toyota Land Cruiser 60 Series? When I picked out my Roadmaster it was the only other vehicle I ran across with such uniformly glowing reviews. The 60 (1980-90) is the rugged beauty of the bunch, looks equally great restored for $40k or scruffy under $4k. Or am I from Neptune on this?
83 FJ60 manual $6800 in Modesto, CA
The 60s are in that happy compromise area between a Jeep CJ or FJ40 on the one hand, and something like a 10 year old 4Runner on the other. Lots of space inside, boxy good looks, mechanically simple (except for the carb and related gubbins). My brother had a 62 that was a stubborn old ox but lovable. My ideal 60 would actually be a 62 because of the port fuel injection, but with a 5-spd manual swap. The 62s were very similar to the 60s except for EFI, slushbox, and four eye front end. 60s were all carbed, 4-spd manual, and round headlights. At least here in the States anyways.
And full disclosure, I have a Land Crusher but it's a '94 80 series with the 1FZ-FE, Old Man Emu lift, 35" BFGs, and electric locking diffs. So yeah, I suppose that's my true ideal Cruiser.
That FJ is a lot of car for the money and not so nice that I'd be afraid to drive it in the winter. As always Kaibeezy, you are a detective of great finds.
I know of a guy who is importing a Mitsubishi Delica right now to the US, as the '89s have begun to clear the 25 year importation rule. They are already pretty common sights in BC, and should share quite a few parts with US vintage Mitsus. Real 4WD, ground clearance to spare, turbodiesel and manual trans available. Should be able to procure a very nice example AND import it within your budget.
I plan on pushing VERY hard to convince my wife we need one when child #2 comes along.
I would love a delica. Makes me want to take a trip to the outback.
This is mind-blowing. It kind of sucks being American when all the cool stuff is going to other markets. I totally need a Delica.
Steve, have you found your daily hauler yet? If not, might I suggest this 1965 Chevy II Nova wagon
What it lacks in mpg, it makes up for in burn outs.